Ogłoszenie

Dear Friends,

It is with a heavy heart that we have decided to retire our beloved Forum Detroit. It has served the Polonia Detroit for over 10 years, and was a source of joy for many. However, after many months of inactivity, the time has come to bid it farewell.

Deepest and warmest thanks to all those who contributed to Forum discussions over the years, either by sharing their thoughts or reading those of others. Your presence and participation served as a building block of this online polish community.

Forum Detroit

#26 12.04.2009 19:04:23

Zoomboy
Legendarny Mistrz Forum
Od: USA
Zarejestrowany: 07.09.2007
Posty: 13193

Re: Harcerstwo

JCP napisał:

Ale tak bardzo cicho, czy sa moze jakies pomruki? To chyba ewenement w  historii nie tylko szlachetnego harcerstwa, ale takze globalnej akcji charytatywnej. I w tym temacie, podobnie jak w checi udzialu w forum TVD podziwiam za konsekwentne dzialanie. Nominacja do "szczytu cierpliwosci" w pelni zasluzona.

Tylko pomruki. Myślę, ze cały problem wynika z tego, ze nie ma tam głównodowodzącego. Wygląda, ze decyzja musi być podjęta przez więcej niż jedna osobę. Jest to odrobinę kuriozalne, my chcemy dać a nie wziąć wink. W poniedziałek mam dostać "blueprints" na podstawie których mój fachowiec od pieców  zrobi kosztorys. Zobaczymy co dalej...


That’s all, folks
Przekażmy sobie znak pokoju.
Hasta la vista, Vaya con Dios
Я возвращусь, Ich werde zurück sein, Je reviendrai, Estarei de volta, Θα είμαι πίσω, I červnu se zpět, Leszek vissza, وحقوق عودة

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#27 12.04.2009 19:07:42

Zoomboy
Legendarny Mistrz Forum
Od: USA
Zarejestrowany: 07.09.2007
Posty: 13193

Re: Harcerstwo

madmax napisał:

Zoomboy lub ktos zainteresowany . pomozcie  naszej druzynie z koszulkami  gdzie damy logo waszej firmy a nikt nie bedzie cicho. Jeden warunek
barwy bialo-czerwone

Ile potrzebujecie? Czy macie jakiś "tax number", co pozwoliłoby nam odpisać kwotę darowizny od podatku?


That’s all, folks
Przekażmy sobie znak pokoju.
Hasta la vista, Vaya con Dios
Я возвращусь, Ich werde zurück sein, Je reviendrai, Estarei de volta, Θα είμαι πίσω, I červnu se zpět, Leszek vissza, وحقوق عودة

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#28 12.04.2009 20:45:40

JCP
Niezaprzeczalna Legenda Forum
Zarejestrowany: 04.13.2009
Posty: 3520

Re: Harcerstwo

Z., czy chcesz powiedziec ze od 2 miesiecy nie mieli szans spotkac sie (email, telefon, voice mail, meeting) we dwoch, skoro jeden nie moze podjac decyzji? Zadziwia mnie to harcerstwo. Cos tu nie gra... Mozna zawsze dac na koszulki. Beda bialo czerwone z pieknym logo. Harcerze oddali "walkowerem".

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#29 12.06.2009 08:59:12

enygma00
Partner do rozmowy
Zarejestrowany: 04.20.2007
Posty: 169

Re: Harcerstwo

JCP napisał:

Z., czy chcesz powiedziec ze od 2 miesiecy nie mieli szans spotkac sie (email, telefon, voice mail, meeting) we dwoch, skoro jeden nie moze podjac decyzji? Zadziwia mnie to harcerstwo. Cos tu nie gra... Mozna zawsze dac na koszulki. Beda bialo czerwone z pieknym logo. Harcerze oddali "walkowerem".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nie jestem zaskoczona brakiem reakcji od harcerzy na propozycje Zoomboya. Jeszcze jeden przyklad braku zwyklego rozsądku biznesowego i wyobrazni w niektorych organizacjach polonijnych.

Problem polega w duzym stopniu na tym, ze wsrod Polonii (np w harcerstwie, unii kredytowej,  KPA) stosunkowo nie duzo jest prawdziwie zdolnych, agresywnych i zdecydowanych liderów. Wiekszosc wodzow i kierownikow (z rzadkimi wyjątkami) dysponuje slabo wyrobionymi zdolnosciami menadzerskimi i "people skills" i nie bardzo rozumie jak sie powinno sprawy zalatwiac.

Wcale nie watpie ze wiekszosc osob pracujacych w harcerstwie to dobrzy i madrzy ludzie szczerze poswieceni polonijej mlodziezy.  Niestety, na szczeblach przywodczych brakuje zmyslu organizacyjnego i zdolnosci prowadzenia--nawet, powiedzialabym, wyobrazni. Czyli brakuje liderow ktorzy znaja sie na sztuce prowadzenia i ktorzy potrafia podejmowac decyzje.

W tym wypadku (Zoomboya oferta) wydaje mi sie ze ludzie w sprawnie dzialajacej organizacji, od razu odpowiedzieliby Zoomboyowi, podziekowali, utrzymywali z nim kontakt (chocby telefonicznie) i, co najwazniejsze, szybko podjeli decyzje. Jesli nawet sie okazalo ze obecnie nie potrzebne sa akurat nowe lozka, to  ludzie sprytni i praktycznie myslacy zwrocilby sie od razu do Zoomboya z alternatywna propozycja, zeby nie zlekcewazyc lub zaprzepascic hojnej oferty i okazji.

Ale moze nie ma ludzi wsrod obecnych liderow harcerskich ktorzy wiedza jak sie zalatwia profesjonalnie i zrecznie takie sprawy. A jesli sa, to nie sa upowaznieni do podejmowania szybkich decyzji. Podobny brak stanowczosci i dalekowzrocznosci widzi sie w niektorych innych organizacjach polonijnych.

Niewesolo to wrózy o przyszlosci Polonii.

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#30 12.06.2009 09:27:35

madmax
Niezaprzeczalna Legenda Forum
Zarejestrowany: 03.09.2007
Posty: 4409

Re: Harcerstwo

zoomboy napisał:

madmax napisał:

Zoomboy lub ktos zainteresowany . pomozcie  naszej druzynie z koszulkami  gdzie damy logo waszej firmy a nikt nie bedzie cicho. Jeden warunek
barwy bialo-czerwone

Ile potrzebujecie? Czy macie jakiś "tax number", co pozwoliłoby nam odpisać kwotę darowizny od podatku?

Tak oczywiście mamy jako organizacja MON profit.
Może szczegóły podam we właściwym wątku.Wie ze czas nagli
koniec roku wiec na jutro podam szczegóły.Chodzi  tez
o to aby sponsor byl zadowlony z propozyji Bo w dzisiejszych
czasach to jest ginacy gatunek


"Największą chlubą nie jest to, aby nigdy się nie potknąć, ale to, aby po każdym upadku dźwignąć się i stanąć na nogi."

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#31 12.27.2009 00:07:21

Zoomboy
Legendarny Mistrz Forum
Od: USA
Zarejestrowany: 07.09.2007
Posty: 13193

Re: Harcerstwo

ROZCZAROWANY FAKTEM BRAKU REAKCJI HARCERZY NA NASZA OFERTĘ $5000.00, OGŁASZAM NINIEJSZYM, ZE OFERTA  TA WYGASŁA.
PRZEZ PONAD 3 MIESIĄCE TRZYMAŁEM PIENIĄDZE W WYCIĄGNIĘTEJ RĘCE. HARCERZE W TYM CZASIE NIE BYLI ZDOLNI DO ZDECYDOWANIA SIĘ CZY POTRZEBUJĄ PIENIĘDZY, CZY TEZ NIE. CZY CHCĄ SPAĆ NA NOWYCH ŁÓŻKACH, CZY TEZ STARE SA LEPSZE.
ZMĘCZYŁEM SIĘ!
JEST TO JESZCZE JEDEN PRZYKŁAD POLONIJNEJ ORGANIZACJI GDZIE WEWNĘTRZNA POLITYKA I UKŁADY BIORĄ GORE NAD ZDROWYM ROZSĄDKIEM.


That’s all, folks
Przekażmy sobie znak pokoju.
Hasta la vista, Vaya con Dios
Я возвращусь, Ich werde zurück sein, Je reviendrai, Estarei de volta, Θα είμαι πίσω, I červnu se zpět, Leszek vissza, وحقوق عودة

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#32 12.27.2009 13:14:50

JCP
Niezaprzeczalna Legenda Forum
Zarejestrowany: 04.13.2009
Posty: 3520

Re: Harcerstwo

Sami harcerze zapewne o tym nie wiedza. To harcerskie "wyzyny" wzniosly sie ponad zdrowy rozsadek. Czy z piecami, i innymi propozycjami tez nie wyszlo? Stad wynika prosty wniosek, ze tak naprawde harcerze  niczego nie potrzebuja. Zreszta mlodziez moze sama na to zarobic.. A przy okazji oddania sumy walkowerem, inni mogli skorzystac. Moze ci naprawde potrzebujacy.
Good job! And my admiration for your patience!!

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#33 12.27.2009 14:52:31

enygma00
Partner do rozmowy
Zarejestrowany: 04.20.2007
Posty: 169

Re: Harcerstwo

Zoomboy: Znam niektórych ludzi w harcerstwie, wlącznie z wieloma tzw 'przywodcami'. Wydaje mi sie ze tu nie tyle wchodzila w gre jakaś wewnętrzna polityka ile zwykle niedołęstwo i brak wyobrazni. Ogolniej, brak u nich podstawowych zdolnosci organizacyjnych lub biznesowych. A w ogole, to widzi sie brak sprawnego kierownictwa na wyższych szczeblach harcerstwa detroickiego i deficyt w umiejetnosci podejmowania szybkich decyzji. (Haslo skautow amerykanskich "Be prepared" widocznie ich nie dotyczy. Moze im bardziej odpowiada haslo "Czuwaj....ale nie zawraj nam glowy.")

W sumie nie sa to ludzie ani zli ani glupi. Zamiary maja dobre, wiele z nich dziala bezinteresownie od wielu lat, za co ich podziwiam. Ale niektorzy ci co siedza na stanowiskach decydujacych po prostu nie wiedzą jak rzeczy robić. Najgorzej wydaje mi sie jest z hufcem harcerzy, bo harcerki jeszcze jako tako zdają sobie sprawę jak powinno sie sprawy prowadzic. Niestety, o sprawach takich jak Twoja oferta  (i o calej Bialowiezy) najczesciej decyduja (albo, gorzej, NIE decyduja) chłopy, którzy nie mają pojęcia o wielu rzeczach. Ale musze podkreslic, nie wszyscy, bo niektorym nalezy sie uznanie. Po prostu ci nie moga wszystkiego sami zrobic.

W kazdym razie, szkoda ze harcerzyki zaprzepaścili niemałą sume, ktora by sie przydala na rzecz dzieciaków, badz na nowe lozka czy na piec.

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#34 12.27.2009 14:55:36

enygma00
Partner do rozmowy
Zarejestrowany: 04.20.2007
Posty: 169

Re: Harcerstwo

Poprawka: Zamierzalam napisac "Moze im bardziej odpowiada haslo "Czuwaj....ale nie zawracaj nam glowy."

Sorry.

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#35 12.27.2009 16:10:32

JCP
Niezaprzeczalna Legenda Forum
Zarejestrowany: 04.13.2009
Posty: 3520

Re: Harcerstwo

Enygma00, "w sumie nie sa to ludzie ani zli ani glupi. Zamiary maja dobre...." Tego wlasnie nie rozumiem. To jest bowiem jeden z problemow tak jaskrawo wystepujacy wsrod nas. Przy dobrych zamiarach, niestety mierne efekty i zawsze ta sama formulka "chcial dobrze, ale mu nie wyszlo". Great excuse. Ciagle wystawiamy na piedestal ludzi bez kwalifikacji i bez odwagi do przyznania sie "nie wiem jak to robic, pomozcie". Wystarczylo obejrzec program nadany przez TVD, gdzie przodownik harcerzy nie potrafil wypowiedziec poprawnie wiekszosci podawanych przez siebie nazwisk osob, ktore otrzymywaly wyroznienia. Zenujace... Przepraszam, ale nie nalezy sie zadne usprawiedliwienie. Jest to krotko mowiac niedbalstwo, niechlujstwo i brak przygotowania. Mowimy w koncu o harcerzach, o ich wodzach wychowujacych i dajacych przyklad mlodziezy. Tym bardziej nie do przyjecia!
Harcerswto zwraca sie wielokrotnie o pomoc do unii kredytowej, ktora od lat harcerstwo wspomaga. Wszelkie datki sa przyjmowane z otwartymi ramionami i prosza o wiecej. Czy unia wie na co konkretnie sa przeznaczane owe donacje. Czy sa wykorzystywane zgodnie z zamierzeniami? Mysle, ze wywolam nastepna burze oburzen zadajac te pytania. Bo pytania takie wedlug niektorych nie powinny miec miejsca. Przeciez nasza uczciwosc nigdy nie powinna byc kwestionowana. Ba! I tu jest problem. Brak kontroli nad wieloma zrywami Polonii pokazuje, ze nie mamy pojecia o takich projektach jak Wanda Park, i wielu innych. Czy wszystko da sie usprawiedliwic stwierdzeniem, ze tak naprawde nie mamy ludzi madrych, a ci co sa nie sa zli ani glupi. Nie sadze. Skoro grupa harcerska postanowila, ze glupota i polityka wazniejsze sa od czyjegos dobrego serca i ofiarowywanych pieniedzy, to ja jako czlonek unii protestuje przeciwko wyplacaniu im z naszej wspolnej unijnej kasy pieniedzy, ktorych od nas zadaja. Kiedys trzeba zaczac wymagac od ludzi rozsadku, madrosci, doswiadczenia i rozliczac ich z bledow. Przestanmy klaskac i klaskac i twierdzic, ze dobrze, ze ktos jeszcze chce dzialac. Takie dzialania sa bowiem szkodliwe. Udowadniaja nam samym jacy mali jestesmy i jacy zadufani w swojej glupocie i bezmyslnosci. Z kazdego dzialania jest konsekwencja, dlatego ci co dzialaja, powinni brac to pod uwage, albo przestac dzialac.

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#36 01.11.2010 12:25:01

KrolKrzywonosy
Partner do rozmowy
Od: Michigan
Zarejestrowany: 01.08.2010
Posty: 58

Re: Harcerstwo

Oh Zoomboy.  If you want a thank you than THANK YOU i Bog Zaplac. Your generosity to Bialowieza is and was appreciated.  It is not very often such a beautiful gift comes their way.

But, now you take the offer back?  What about others that offered to help? 

It seems that if you saw the need (whether it be beds or the furnace) and you had the money you were willing to donate then why did you take it away?  Because you weren't thanked by the appropriate person or persons?

The need exists regardless.  How many forumdetroit readers have been there?  I was a member as a child - and, up until recently, it hadn't changed.  In fact, the beds might be the same.  But, because of dedication and perserverance by several members, much has been done to improve the facility for our young children.  Even other Polish organizations see the benefits Bialowieza can offer.

This is YOUR gem...this is MY GEM.  Wielki Chicago doesn't have their own Bialowieza.  We should be proud of it and enjoy it.

I'm sorry if it is missed your tax deduction timing - but the needs still exist.  Your original appeal still exists regardless of your hurt feelings.

What the heck happened to the Polonia that wanted their children to participate in Polish activities such as scouting?!  Week after week we read criticism here and in the 2 Polish papers.  Why can't we support our owns organizations?  Instead of helping all we know how to do is criticize?!  We always feel we need  to take sides...someone has to be bad or wrong.  We are are our Polish joke.

This message isn't just for Zoomboy - but for all you that don't do a darn to promote your Polish culture.  Wake up!  Your culture is going to be washed away in editorial comments.  Bialowieza will be sold....Council 122 in Hamtramck will be sold....PNA will go bankrupt...PRCUA will cease to exist.....Polish credit union will close....Polish dancing groups will be a memory of the past.  Take a look at pictures from years ago and look at how few members there are now.

People will believe that we are nothing more than polkas, beer and bowling. 

I am sorry that you took away your $5000 donation Zoomboy.  It would have made a difference.  You could have made a difference.  Instead...we simply talk about it.

Shame on those that didn't take the lead to work with you.  Perhaps that is the nature of an organizational that is filled with volunteers.  No one is paid yet work ever so hard.

I plead with you to reconsider.  Perhaps you can trust in those in charge and donate the money to the Building Fund.  Perhaps you can help Bialowieza by being a valuable spokeperson to their cause. 

I challenge you Zoomboy to make a difference.

Czuwaj!


It is okay to be different.
It is okay to have an opinion.
But, if you have a different opinion than show strength of character to defend it.

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#37 01.11.2010 17:14:44

Zoomboy
Legendarny Mistrz Forum
Od: USA
Zarejestrowany: 07.09.2007
Posty: 13193

Re: Harcerstwo

Hi Królu, (I have suspicions that your Polish is as good as your English)

KrólKrzywonosy napisał:

It seems that if you saw the need (whether it be beds or the furnace) and you had the money you were willing to donate then why did you take it away?  Because you weren't thanked by the appropriate person or persons?

The money was to come from our business and must be disposed before the end of the year. One might think, that three months are enough to make any decision. I thought that someone from the "upper echelon" would bother organizing the pressing needs...
But this fact wasn't the prevailing one in our decision to withdraw the offer. It was strictly business. Some of that money went to the Polish Sport Club, the rest to other organizations, not necessarily Polish. They showed appreciation for our donation. As the old Polish proverb says: "Dawać i prosić, to za dużo".

KrólKrzywonosy napisał:

This is YOUR gem...this is MY GEM.  Wielki Chicago doesn't have their own Bialowieza.  We should be proud of it and enjoy it.

I'm sorry if it is missed your tax deduction timing - but the needs still exist.  Your original appeal still exists regardless of your hurt feelings.

I am agreeing with you wholeheartedly; Białowieża is OUR (Polonia) CROWN JEWEL in every dimension. It fulfills the heritage needs of young generations, which is so important. It's an excellent piece of land in a pristine location. It should serve all  Polonia.
My feelings are not hurt because of the outcome. I will just look more carefully in the future in choosing the window under which to sing my serenade wink

KrólKrzywonosy napisał:

What the heck happened to the Polonia that wanted their children to participate in Polish activities such as scouting?!  Week after week we read criticism here and in the 2 Polish papers.  Why can't we support our owns organizations?  Instead of helping all we know how to do is criticize?!  We always feel we need  to take sides...someone has to be bad or wrong.  We are are our Polish joke.

This message isn't just for Zoomboy - but for all you that don't do a darn to promote your Polish culture.  Wake up!  Your culture is going to be washed away in editorial comments.  Bialowieza will be sold....Council 122 in Hamtramck will be sold....PNA will go bankrupt...PRCUA will cease to exist.....Polish credit union will close....Polish dancing groups will be a memory of the past.  Take a look at pictures from years ago and look at how few members there are now.

People will believe that we are nothing more than polkas, beer and bowling.

I am not a spring chicken; I've been around the block a few times, and I've been watching our local Polonia. Perhaps my observations kept me from joining any of their ranks.
After arriving in the USA in late '86 we were busy with raising our children and the few businesses we dealt with, until we managed (my wife and myself, the success of the spa which to her I must credit, I was a mere designer and builder)  to establish one which has lasted many years and of which we are very proud. And I am proud of the fact that at least 50% of our staff are native Poles. Their dedication to the excellence in service makes our business so successful.
It is so sad that I foresee the same end to all of our heritage here, if we leave it as is. My solution is to change leadership, which in my opinion is a key link that is currently failing us. We all can be Americans; why not be Polish-Americans? We should be proud of it.
I am sure that you've noticed that I am often criticizing a lot. That is simply my nature wink, my father told me: If you are going to do anything - do it right, the first time. I am trying to live by that credo every day. I hate sub-standards, half-ways and excuses.
I do love Polish beer, but hate polka (dances, not ladies wink )

KrólKrzywonosy napisał:

I challenge you Zoomboy to make a difference.

I am trying, Królu, I am trying.
(for me wrong doesn't have color or political affiliation, it's just it, wrong)


That’s all, folks
Przekażmy sobie znak pokoju.
Hasta la vista, Vaya con Dios
Я возвращусь, Ich werde zurück sein, Je reviendrai, Estarei de volta, Θα είμαι πίσω, I červnu se zpět, Leszek vissza, وحقوق عودة

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#38 01.11.2010 19:57:31

enygma00
Partner do rozmowy
Zarejestrowany: 04.20.2007
Posty: 169

Re: Harcerstwo

krolkrzszywonosy, in response to your statements:

Did Harcerstwo screw up with Zoomboy? Yes, from what I have seen they did, big time! Why?

The point in all of this is: they did not meet with him or stay in contact with Zoomboy or sit down with him for a cup coffee to talk. Should they have? Absolutely! Was  that not the point?
Yes perhaps he had deadlines---don't we all, when we have to get our tax deductible contributions in by the end of the year? Anyone who has a business sense would recognize this---time was of essence in this case. (And they had 3 or 4 months!) So yes, Zoomboy's offer seemed sincere and generous, but Harcerstwo dropped the ball! Or someone in Harcerstwo did! I hold the leaders responsible. (Not to mention how rudely Zoomboy was treated.)

But in defense of Harcerstwo, there are many good people within this strong organization (which is about to celebrate its 100th anniversary at a Zlot in Poland) who devote their time (and here is the value) to teach their own and others' children about their heritage and teach them leadership skills as those children go off to college or out in the community. Many of them have retained a great pride in their heritage even though they were not born in Poland. And again the question always arises:  Are you less Polish because you were not born in Poland but yet promote all things Polish with your heart and soul!

And yes there is a valid point when Zoomboy makes a correlation between the PAC Credit Union and Harcerstwo---perhaps because in its early formation and continuity and trying to bring young people to "serve"---there were some leadership roles based on community participation or education that Harcerstwo has always been a part of.

But then in respect to the Credit Union and Anita Dul that Zoomboy associates Harcerstwo with---who brought Dul into the picture? Not Harcerstwo---but a small group of employees in the Hamtramck branch who were her buddies and thought she would be the ideal Board Member and leader. And what happened? Dul turned on them and now the "dirty laundry" is being washed for all to see!

And that is what is happening to many Polish Organizations--it is the "zazdrosc" and infighting that will destroy them! Whether it is Harcerstwo, Unia Kredytowa, Polish American Congress, PNA, Gmina 122, Wanda Park or whatever.

I agree with Zoomboy, the biggest problem is not that there are not good people who are willing to work hard. There are (and we should all thank them). The problem is that there are not enough good leaders.

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#39 01.11.2010 21:06:25

JCP
Niezaprzeczalna Legenda Forum
Zarejestrowany: 04.13.2009
Posty: 3520

Re: Harcerstwo

The difference between what we want or would like and what is actually done is the same as between dreams and reality. It only depends on us how we will realize the dreams to reality. But it is always good to dream.
I also belong to the generation that was born in Poland after the war to the parents that used to say: "do it right", "good is not enough", "it has to be excellent". Unfortunatelly our country did not make us stay there and we ended up in the US with all the dreams and visions of the wonderful and free world. We are part of Polonia.
A lot of Polish organizations were established long time ago and somehow many of them were not able to attract young crowd. They were very proud of what they had and often perceived us as different than the previous immigrants.Maybe in their eyes we were the ones who came here for rather success than bread on the table, and many times with college education not willing to live such modest lives? Somewhere down the road Polonia got divided here, where we should have been rather more united. I think there are a lot of reasons for it and I am sure there are many different opinions about it as well.
In post #36 there are 2 sentences that seem to be catching attention. One is "We are our Polish joke" and the second "People will believe that we are nothing more than polkas, beer, and bowling". It might be so very true if we will not start reorganizing what we still have. Unfortunately it is very common in our society to not take any action other than talking, criticizing, and complaining. Most of us want their own peace and want to be left alone. As long as most of us will accept what we have and be afraid of change-nothing will change for better, but it might change for worse.
Krolkrzywonosy wrote:"I plead with you to reconsider", "I challenge you Zoomboy to make a difference". It seems to me Zoomboy took a challenge. What was he supposed to do? Beg them to take his money? Krolukrzywonosy, we need to challenge Polonia and the leadership. As a Krol please say what the king is supposed to say, make your personal decisions and share it with us. What can we do? How can we start? It might be as simple as not accepting what we have and taking part in so much needed change. We need to restore our pride in Polonia and our organizations, but we definitely need people who can lead. So be the king, show us the way, and if we accept we will follow.  Would that be ok?

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#40 01.11.2010 21:28:29

JCP
Niezaprzeczalna Legenda Forum
Zarejestrowany: 04.13.2009
Posty: 3520

Re: Harcerstwo

Enygma00, I totally agree with you: Zoomboy deserved a cup of coffee. There are not a lot of people today offering such generosity. "Thank you" would be good, too. I hope that there were leaders in Harcerstwo, that really were able to teach those kids "leadership skills" as you wrote. I have doubts how it looks today after current events.
There are few sentences in your post though that bother me. Saying that a small group of employees from Hamtramck branch brought Dul to the board and she turned on them which in consequence got us to this "laundry" situation is not completely true. As everywhere else we needed new leadership in the credit union. But back in 2000 or 2001 there was a guy on Board, who was not liked by the rest of the group and perhaps even the upper management. They were willing to take anybody in order to replace that guy. It just had happened that Anita Dul started her own business and had her friend working in Hamtramck branch. The rest of us did not know Anita Dul and had no clue what or who she was.  John wanted her on board. Not many people attended annual meetings back then and it was relatively easy to vote her in. Who knew the rest of the story and the politics behind it if there was any?  People do not know the truth, because they were not there. One side of the story does not complete the picture.  Today we are "washing the laundry" for a lot of reasons. Maybe we will dry it soon?

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#41 01.12.2010 17:50:09

KrolKrzywonosy
Partner do rozmowy
Od: Michigan
Zarejestrowany: 01.08.2010
Posty: 58

Re: Harcerstwo

I am very pleased such a positive discussion.  I am new to this forum but not to Detroit's POLONIA and its issues.  This "krol" doesn't have the answers but some suggestions.  In management i have learned that it isn't always the people that are the problem but rather the process that yields the results we like or dislike.  We need to fix the process - not the people. 

With scouting, for example, a good scout may not yield a good leader.  With soccer, a good player may not yield a great coach.  Harcerstwo doesn't promote its members to leadership positions.  They have a boy scout leader (hufcowy) and a girl scout leader (hufcowa).  Their role is to promote Polish scouting principles to its youth.  These people utilize Bialowieza and sleep in its beds at kolonia (the beds are meant for zuchy during kolonia and for harcerki/harcerze during weekend biwaki).  They see the problems that may exist from a different angle.  For example, if they want to play soccer up on the polana they may ask "why isn't the grass cut?".  But, it is obwod that acts like Board of Directors whose job it is to fundraise and to support the ongoing efforts of the camp.  These people don't sleep in the beds and don't play soccer on the field.  Their goal is to get the greatest value for every dollar earned or donated.  And...we cannot understate that they are all volunteers - doing their best with their donated time and efforts. 

I cannot offer opinions on PAC.

But, as "krol" my opinion is to get involved.  Once you understand an organization's purpose you can understand its need.  Only then can we offer real criticism followed by real help.   

It is obvious by this blog that people do care - but there are too few.  We need to promote these organizations so that when one single donation comes in it doesn't act like a shock to our system where we are like a "deer in the headlights" - we don't know how to respond so we don't respond at all.  The system created a frustrated and generous donor. 

But, let me tell you first hand, the memories I have with the Weterani, with dancing (not Polkas either) and with harcerstwo are in the core of who I am.  They have provided me with experiences that shape me as a person.

I am proud of my heritage....I am proud to be a member of Polonia.

We need to increase readership with the Tygodnik (I worked at the Dziennik when it was trully a daily paper) and the Czas Polski.  We need to increase the desire of our Polonia to make a difference by becoming active.  As people are active...the organizations thrive....more people to donate time.........more money to get things done.  We will become a vibrant cultural machine that is moving forward.  We will be a people to be heard. 

I too come from a generation where hard work was expected.    Let us work hard to keep Polonia on the map in Michigan.

If time could be turned back....I wish things were different because the $5000 could have really helped.

It is okay to be different.
It is okay to have an opinion.
But, if you have a different opinion than show strength of character to defend it.


It is okay to be different.
It is okay to have an opinion.
But, if you have a different opinion than show strength of character to defend it.

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#42 01.13.2010 19:26:47

KrolKrzywonosy
Partner do rozmowy
Od: Michigan
Zarejestrowany: 01.08.2010
Posty: 58

Re: Harcerstwo

puk puk zoomboy!  Gdzie jestesz.


It is okay to be different.
It is okay to have an opinion.
But, if you have a different opinion than show strength of character to defend it.

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#43 01.13.2010 19:54:28

JCP
Niezaprzeczalna Legenda Forum
Zarejestrowany: 04.13.2009
Posty: 3520

Re: Harcerstwo

I agree that it's ok to be different, and I can assure you, that if I have one-I defend it. KroluKrzywonosy, would you like to belong to "Klub TP"? There was an idea presented in TP by someone in the previous issue.
What do you think about establishing a new Polish organization? Do you have any ideas? What would bring the enthusiasm these days?

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#44 01.19.2010 07:31:07

KrolKrzywonosy
Partner do rozmowy
Od: Michigan
Zarejestrowany: 01.08.2010
Posty: 58

Re: Harcerstwo

JCP....perhaps my head is in the sand but what is KLUB TP? 

My initial thoughts are that how can a new organization be successful if Polonia doesn't support the current ones?  Perhaps some of the current organizations need a fresh start.  When any organization forms it is created based on goals and objectives.  And ideal of what they want to achieve.  As time goes on the organization can take on a life of its own - filled with bureaucracy and politics.  This results in people losing focus from their original objective.  Some of the leaders (I'm not being specific to an organization so please don't misread my message here) can get too focused on beating the next guy in the next election then they are on doing hard work in support of their mission.

I recommend that each Polonian organization dust off their old mission or charter and reexamine whether they have strayed.  If yes, then they need an HONEST look at what it will take to get back to that mission - or to establish a new one.  But, bickering and infighting is not the answer.

Let me say this....I don't like my integrity questionned.  And, I know, that when "attacked" I may lash out.  This human nature is one of the reasons why organizations lose sight of its goals.

Polonia needs to get over feelings about the "new Polonia".  Every decade has brought a new Polonia.  These people must be included for us to succeed as a people.

These are my humble thoughts.


It is okay to be different.
It is okay to have an opinion.
But, if you have a different opinion than show strength of character to defend it.

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#45 02.06.2010 07:17:22

Zoomboy
Legendarny Mistrz Forum
Od: USA
Zarejestrowany: 07.09.2007
Posty: 13193

Re: Harcerstwo

Dzisiaj, z niejakim zaskoczeniem, dowiedziałem się z audycji najstarszego radia, ze harcerze ciągle potrzebują pieniędzy na Białowieżę.
Wdzięczne zadanie dla unii, która wydaje się dawać i dzielić. wink


That’s all, folks
Przekażmy sobie znak pokoju.
Hasta la vista, Vaya con Dios
Я возвращусь, Ich werde zurück sein, Je reviendrai, Estarei de volta, Θα είμαι πίσω, I červnu se zpět, Leszek vissza, وحقوق عودة

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#46 02.06.2010 14:11:37

nowy
Niezaprzeczalna Legenda Forum
Zarejestrowany: 11.05.2009
Posty: 3860

Re: Harcerstwo

Harcerze zawsze potrzebuja pieniedzy ,nawet w czasach gdy zajmowali sie roznego typu "zbieractwem"butelki ,makulatura ich dzialalnosc byla finansowana.
Z'' dzielenia'' zawsze jest mniej .Blysnolem intelektem?


"Kto za młodu nie był buntownikiem, ten na starość będzie świnią"
                                                                            J.Piłsudski

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#47 02.09.2010 09:49:39

Zoomboy
Legendarny Mistrz Forum
Od: USA
Zarejestrowany: 07.09.2007
Posty: 13193

Re: Harcerstwo

nowy napisał:

zoomboy napisał:

Ciekawe...

Harcerze namawiają na przynoszenie własnego alkoholu do kościoła, że co?
A skręty można?

http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/rtfm/t2427.gif

To jest pomysl na dofinansowanie zwiazku .Pozostale po imprezie puszki i butelki mozna spieniezyc a uzyskane srodki przeznaczyc na zasilenie kasy .Przyjemne z porzytecznym.Niech zyje pozytywne myslenie.

Buteleczki na łóżeczka? http://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/fun/b0225.gif


That’s all, folks
Przekażmy sobie znak pokoju.
Hasta la vista, Vaya con Dios
Я возвращусь, Ich werde zurück sein, Je reviendrai, Estarei de volta, Θα είμαι πίσω, I červnu se zpět, Leszek vissza, وحقوق عودة

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#48 02.09.2010 10:41:55

nowy
Niezaprzeczalna Legenda Forum
Zarejestrowany: 11.05.2009
Posty: 3860

Re: Harcerstwo

zoomboy napisał:

nowy napisał:

zoomboy napisał:

Ciekawe...

Harcerze namawiają na przynoszenie własnego alkoholu do kościoła, że co?
A skręty można?

http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/rtfm/t2427.gif

To jest pomysl na dofinansowanie zwiazku .Pozostale po imprezie puszki i butelki mozna spieniezyc a uzyskane srodki przeznaczyc na zasilenie kasy .Przyjemne z porzytecznym.Niech zyje pozytywne myslenie.

Buteleczki na łóżeczka? http://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/fun/b0225.gif

A moze z buteleczki i na lozeczko.


"Kto za młodu nie był buntownikiem, ten na starość będzie świnią"
                                                                            J.Piłsudski

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#49 02.09.2010 11:16:23

madmax
Niezaprzeczalna Legenda Forum
Zarejestrowany: 03.09.2007
Posty: 4409

Re: Harcerstwo

nowy napisał:

zoomboy napisał:

nowy napisał:


To jest pomysl na dofinansowanie zwiazku .Pozostale po imprezie puszki i butelki mozna spieniezyc a uzyskane srodki przeznaczyc na zasilenie kasy .Przyjemne z porzytecznym.Niech zyje pozytywne myslenie.

Buteleczki na łóżeczka? http://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/fun/b0225.gif

A moze z buteleczki i na lozeczko.

Nowy , czy masz na mysli powiekszanie  druzyn Skrzatow ? cool


"Największą chlubą nie jest to, aby nigdy się nie potknąć, ale to, aby po każdym upadku dźwignąć się i stanąć na nogi."

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#50 02.10.2010 14:23:25

Zoomboy
Legendarny Mistrz Forum
Od: USA
Zarejestrowany: 07.09.2007
Posty: 13193

Re: Harcerstwo

Jak zwykle z wielkim zainteresowaniem przeczytałem elektroniczna wersje Tygodnika Polskiego.
W "stopce" Od Redaktora Naczelnego przeczytalem krotki fragment, ktory cytuje ponizej

Usiluje zrozumiec postawe niektorych czlonkow kadry harcerskiej, ktorzy wrecz oswiadczyli, ze maja swoja liste kandydatow na ktorych zaglosuja, poniewaz to gwarantuje im pomoc finasowa unii dla organizacji ZHP

Czy powinniśmy to odczytać, ze unia kupuje glosy członków?
Czy HARCERZOM nie zależy, kto i jak nieudolnie zarządza unia, tak długo jak dostają pieniądze?
Nic tylko pochwalić postawę moralna.
Nie zapomnijcie przekazać tych szlachetnych wzorców naszej młodzieży wink

Może dlatego harcerze nie wzięli naszych 5K. Nie załączyliśmy żadnych warunków, a oni nie są do tego przyzwyczajeni.

http://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/misc/b0550.gif


That’s all, folks
Przekażmy sobie znak pokoju.
Hasta la vista, Vaya con Dios
Я возвращусь, Ich werde zurück sein, Je reviendrai, Estarei de volta, Θα είμαι πίσω, I červnu se zpět, Leszek vissza, وحقوق عودة

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